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Forum » [FHSW Europ] FHSW 0.51 Server: » Infos: » Always the same maps (Disussion about the choice of maps)
Always the same maps
mardukDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 10:22 AM | Message # 1
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Hello all,
we have got a problem with the choice of maps. There are some players who always want the same maps (basically El Alamein, Alpenfestung, Remagen, Bombing the Reich, Charkow Winter, sometimes Gazaps and Prokorovka and maybe a few others as well) and others (including me, Robert, Sepp amongst others) who are really annoyed by this.
I am an admin on the server pretty often and when I set maps not including the ones I listed I am instantly confrontated by players who want me to change the map. Pretty often in a rude and disrespectful way. I am an admin in my free time and like to do that, I also donate money to keep the server running.
But I am not willing to do this any longer if the players do not change their behaviour!

------------

Hallo alle,
wir haben ein Problem mit der Mapauswahl. Es gibt einige Spieler die immer die gleichen maps wollen (im Grunde El Alamein, Alpenfestung, Remagen, Bombing the Reich, Charkow Winter, manchmal Gazaps und Prokorovka und vielleicht auch noch ein paar andere) und andere (inklusive mir, Robert, Sepp, unter anderem) die davon genervt sind.
Ich bin relativ oft Admin auf dem Server und wenn ich maps setze die nicht die oben genannten umfassen, werde ich direkt von Spielern konfrontiert die wollen, dass ich die map ändere. Ziemlich oft in einer unhöflichen und respektlosen Art. Ich bin Admin in meiner Freizeit und mache das auch gerne und ich spende auch Geld um den Server am Leben zu erhalten.
Aber ich bin nicht bereit das noch länger zu machen wenn die Spieler ihr Verhalten nicht ändern.


Quid pro quo!
 
slobodanDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 10:38 AM | Message # 2
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It is not problem. biggrin These maps are cool happy

Btw
Santa has good idea to organize Alpenfestung 24/7 event, maybe this week?


 
mardukDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 10:41 AM | Message # 3
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Just make fun slobodan.
Dont take this issue serious and we will lose more players.


Quid pro quo!
 
Endless_NamelessDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 1:56 PM | Message # 4
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100% agreed, some maps we have only played once or twice in a year! Yes some maps are almost unplayable with our small community but there are also lots of smaller maps we very rarely play, e. g. Bizerte, Valirisk, River Kwai, Raseiniai, River Don,...

-------
Ich stimme dir 100% zu, manche Karten haben wir nur ein oder zweimal im kompletten vergangenen Jahr gespielt! Natürlich gibt es einige, die mit wenigen Spielern einfach nicht Spaß machen, aber es gibt auch genug kleinere Karten, die nur sehr selten laufen, z. B. Bizerte, Valirisk, River Kwai, Raseiniai, River Don,..

Es stimmt auch, dass man von gewissen Herrschaften immer angeschnauzt wird, wenn mal eine ungewöhnliche Map als nächstes kommt.


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MannsDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 2:01 PM | Message # 5
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I am happy with playing only the same maps, because we don't get many players with maps like edissons ridge

Alpenfestung
Remagen
Gazaps

Everyone of these maps are unique in playing and teamwork, and you can choose different types of playing each round, drive the mouse ? get the flags ? artillery ? AA gun ? or just dog fighting ?

it is awesome as it is, we should keep playing the same maps !

my opinion


honor and duty

Private [DPB]Styv signed up for military service on ranked battlefields at 19:04:56 30|07|2008 in ForgottenHope 1
 
Santa-AnnaDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 2:04 PM | Message # 6
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Just changing the map in its sole discretion, if the players do not come to a consensus. A louts should be punished! :E
 
Mr_JDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 3:10 PM | Message # 7
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Hmm... The most crying persons never tell anything when I ask about the nextmap so what can I do about that? Usually I take account of the first reasonable suggestion posted in chat - fasters do win. If there's no any at all, it's better to set a good and proven map as next then.
Another issue is that many of maps are not playable in small companionship (eg all FHTs) so I don't see any point forcing each other to get bored while playing them. Also there is another group of maps that are relitevely small but simply boring and that's why don't play them very often; I've never seen someone who voted River Don for example.
 
Endless_NamelessDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 4:21 PM | Message # 8
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Usually I don't care what maps we play, my posting is just an observation and as I said I'm aware that not all maps are playable with our low numbers. It's just lately that the same maps became a bit dull. Especially El Al is so annoying with 10/15 players, you drive to a flag for 5 minutes and immediately get bombed. It usually turns out into a flak vs planes map with only one guy on each team going for the flags..

FHT maps are not only big ones: Kohima (3 flags), Longcloth (4 flags + push), Dinant (3 flags + push)

Of course we should still play the old timers, but once in a while I'd like to try a new or rarely played one.


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RYDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:10 PM | Message # 9
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It seems that all(or almost all) FHSW maps meant to be played with at least 20-40 players, but many of them are still playable with less players.

I don't mind playing maps that are rarely played from time to time.

But few things make it difficult:
1) this mod is extremely bugged, and almost anyone crashes at some maps
2) in addition to that map loading time is extremely long (it would be about 25-60% less if bf1942 was loading map on the client and server machines at the same time, but bf1942 devs was too dumb for that, I guess)
3.0) some maps are very imbalanced (well, it's not just maps)
3.1) in addition to that: not enough tickets on some maps and capturable main bases on some maps.
Plus it is generally more fun to play with more people... :)
And don't forget that BF1942:FHSW is not a job or something like that, people PLAY this GAME to have some fun and such.

So people leave when something not realy fun for them is coming. And when ppl leave - it becomes less fun for the rest to play, so more people leave and you end up with 2-6 players...

(Remember last paratrooper event, what happened yesterday.

I also can understand people who act in a "rude and disrespectful way"(I'm not saying they're right). Because they may realy like to play FHSW, but there are no alternatives for this server(and most people have very high ping on Japanese server) and when you set the map they don't like, when you set the map that others don't like and leave. So it's like you're stealing their fun - this makes people sad and/or angry.
Speaking of which reminds me that I could have been a bit rude to you(and to others) too, if that realy pissed you off -- sorry, I didn't mean to... and sorry if this happens in the future. :P

And I would like to mention one more thing - autobalance.
I like to play with my clanmates, some other people also like to play with their clanmates or friends. With the voice communication it makes possible some kind of a teamplay...
Plus because of imbalance and luck of players on some maps one of the teams must have more players than the other team...

Rarely played maps will become more playable with bigger player base, so first of all you need to grow the player base... Solving the problems that are mentioned above may help with that.
Another thing - total player base of BF1942 is reducing every year, and ppl won't buy bf1942 just to play this mod. Also, don't forget that many ppl are attracted by graphics, but bf1942 is old and doesn't have modern graphics stuff.

There are just too many problems with different things. Even posting messages on this forum is difficult (Why do registered people need to enter captcha every time they want to post something?!).



[Drink Sq] RadYogh


Message edited by RY - Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:15 PM
 
Fritz-KempfDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:14 PM | Message # 10
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For me it is simple.

If they destroy the gameplat i choose my map and its always someting that others desn't want. Yeah, im an asshole. :P
I also agree with Marduck. Ok, i love Alpenfestung, Bombing The Reich, El Alamein, Phorovka. But also others like Tulagi Island, Tarawa. Never we play those maps. I suggest disable vote and play in alphabeth. But yeah, it can cost players.

And what i most hate is -> vote. Vote until the map is change and also other choose. I have no idea what you will think about this. But when i will be in charge, i disable the vote if they open each minute an new vote. That is ignoring.




Message edited by Fritz-Kempf - Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:16 PM
 
[LSD]SeppDietrich[OGF]Date: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:18 PM | Message # 11
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hi
man es gibt so viele maps zb:
battle of foy
golf hotel
honkong
berlin
breaktrougth
liberation of cean
nordwind
trois ponts
neuen
seelower-höhen
pakfront
blacknigth
moskau
warschau
meuse-river-line
und und und!!
aber wie kann man nur so geil auf 5 oder 6 maps sein bei sovielen karten!!und dann noch mekern wenn ein admin mal ne selten gespielte karte macht!!wenn sie nicht ihren willen bekommen hauen sie ab!aber das hatte ich gestern ja sachon alles in der shouts-box getippt!
marduk und eye
ihr habt voll recht gruss sepp


Mut bedeutet zu kämpfen auch wenn der Feind übermächtig ist!
Courage meant to fight even if the enemy is over powerful!
 
RYDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:23 PM | Message # 12
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Fritz-Kempf, if you they disable map voting at all - ppl will shortly stop playing FHSW at all.
I saw that in other games on some server, even with voting enabled(and there was voting for the nextmap, not just to change the currenlty played map) bad map cycle lists were killing servers.
From this point it seems that most if not all of the FHSW players are masochists, though they have their limit in masochism too...



[Drink Sq] RadYogh
 
slobodanDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:43 PM | Message # 13
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Quote
If they destroy the gameplat i choose my map and its always someting that others desn't want. Yeah, im an asshole. :P

Yes you are asshole, you are destroying gameplay. If you set masochistic map, many players leaves the game. sad We want more players, NO less.

I totally agree with RY. Example from last week: Kharkov Winter ~ 12 players, --> next map: Kiev and ... 7 players.
I see that when we play El Alamein, Alpen or another popular map the number of players is rising.




Message edited by slobodan - Monday, 2012-12-10, 7:12 PM
 
mardukDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 6:47 PM | Message # 14
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@Mr J: Taking account of the first reasonable suggestion is quite a way.

@Fritz: Just disable mapvote when an admin is on the server; while no admin is on the server, it has to be enabled.

@RY: Disabling autoteambalance is not negociable. It causes lots of troubles on certain maps where everybody wants to play allies or axis on others. Without autoteambalance you will end up having discussions with people about changing the team on every second map. That just does not work. Trust me, we tried it out in the past. Not negociable.
(Die Autoteambalance ist nicht verhandelbar. Ohne diese gibt es ständig Probleme mit ungleichen Teams. Wir haben es schon in der Vergangenheit ausprobiert -es funktioniert nicht.)

@slobodan: the player number is not always increasing. We have enough players here who are annoyed, and they will leave in the future if we keep setting always the same maps.

We had a problem with the paratrooper event because the advertisement was bad: no flyer and the maplist was hidden on the mainpage between other news. Paratrooper events in the past have been succesful.


Quid pro quo!
 
Endless_NamelessDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 7:01 PM | Message # 15
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Quote (RY)

1) this mod is extremely bugged, and almost anyone crashes at some maps

For me (Win7 64bit) it runs pretty smooth, I crash maybe once on 50 maps. But yeah I see a lot of other ppl crashing not sure why. sad

Quote (RY)

Rarely played maps will become more playable with bigger player base, so first of all you need to grow the player base... Solving the problems that are mentioned above may help with that.

Agreed, but we tried almost everything by now. Also some ideas I and others have or had can't be done because of certain ppl not responding. If the "community" (100+ registered users) would show up on events we could start from there to grow, but that is just a dream it seems.

Quote (RY)

Even posting messages on this forum is difficult (Why do registered people need to enter captcha every time they want to post something?!).

I'm sure Stefan could change this by editing the rights of the "trusted" group.. it definitely is very annoying.


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slobodanDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 7:10 PM | Message # 16
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Maybe let's make the list of playable maps on our server and delete masochistic maps.



Message edited by slobodan - Monday, 2012-12-10, 7:16 PM
 
Endless_NamelessDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 8:36 PM | Message # 17
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Good idea, I'll start:

Maps which are imo (open to discussion) not very fun with 15 or less players:
- Adak Island
- Kure
- Arctic Convoy
- Bombing the Reich (if you're British at least)
- Crete
- FHT Sittang Bridge
- Midway 1942
- Desert Rose
- Op. Thursday
- Kasserine Pass
- Omaha
- Op. A
- Op. Blackknight
- Op. Hailstone
- Op. Kikusui Day 1+2
- Op. Spring Awakening
- Pakfront
- Philippines
- Merville Battery
- Sand Storm
- Tulagi Island
- Tunis
- Wake
- Wake Night


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RYDate: Monday, 2012-12-10, 9:01 PM | Message # 18
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Quote (marduk)
We had a problem with the paratrooper event because the advertisement was bad: no flyer and the maplist was hidden on the mainpage between other news. Paratrooper events in the past have been succesful.

Yeah, that explains why player amount dropped by about 30% when you set the event map... (to be clear - it was a sarcasm) And later players were still leaving the server, when they already knew this is the event, and though some players were joining total amount of players was still redicing.
Also, It's cool to have a banner, but that is more important to have that information in the top of the page. Also - email notifications are good.

Quote (Endless_Nameless)
For me (Win7 64bit) it runs pretty smooth, I crash maybe once on 50 maps. But yeah I see a lot of other ppl crashing not sure why.

I also have Win7 x64, and it's rarely crashing for me (mostly only when I switch to other apps while BF1942 is loading the map and switch to BF1942 only after it loaded the map), except some maps that always crash bf1942. When there are many players on the server random crashes happen more often.
And I have some widescreen fix(replaces bf1942 exe) and some weird 'compatibility' fix for FH 0.7(that replaces objects.rfa), and run the game with WinXP compatibility (or it crashes no matter what), I also tryed some other things, but I don't remember exactly...
For Santa-Anna it randomly crashes on different maps, mostly when map is loading, but he said that he used something that should speedup the map loading, which caused the game to crash more often... I remember that some other guys was crashing in the middle of the game, not only when map is loading. starking018 always crashing on gazaps, fh_air_extended(or is that fht_?)

And more than that - I've tryed to play with dedicated server(I was thinking about making a server for flying and training), and got into trouble with server crashes:
1) I was using bf1942 server from the official EA site(battlefield_1942_server_v1.6.19.exe + bf1942_winos_dedicated-hotfix_1.6.zip + battlefield_1942_server_incremental_patch_v1.6_to_v1.61b.exe) and dedicated server mods files(forgotten_hope_v0.7_dedicated_server.zip + fh_fan_mappack_6_server_files.rar + FHSW051ServerFull.rar).
When everything was set up, I did some options tweaking, choosen the mod, added maps to the maplist, then started the server and it has crashed, I've tryed with different maps 2 or 3 times and it was always crashing. I thought that I do something wrong or maybe it's my win7x64(i've tryed running server with different compatibility modes and withou any), and tryed to do that on my notebook with winxp sp3, it was also crashing. After all I've decided to try some other maps, which I didn't try yet - and it didn't crash on some of them. But, for example, it was always crashing with 'Bombing the Reich" map, on both machines, later I even formatted my notebook HDD and installed windows 2000 sp4 there...
2) After that I tryed running bf1942 dedicated server with client mods files(the regular packs, that everybody uses), and I wasn't crashing with some maps when it was crashing with server files, but it was crashing with different maps... >_>

Also, when I first installed bf1942+fh+fhsw(when it was 0.4x) it was realy rarely crashing for me, but after that I had to reinstall the whole thing and it began crashing more often, and always on some maps...

Quote (Endless_Nameless)
I'm sure Stefan could change this by editing the rights of the "trusted" group.. it definitely is very annoying.

It would be much better would be switch to a different forum/site engine, ucoz totaly sucks in almost everything, except making shit with 2 clicks. :)

By the way, one of the things that may help the community to grow is making an easy installation for BF1942+FH+FHSW with fixes included. It would be best to convince FHSW devs to make FHSW work without FH and/or other mods, with just pure bf1942. And it would be nice to have a variant of installation where all bf1942 stuff will be replaced by FHSW, and everything not used in FHSW cut out, I bet that this also could speedup the map loading a lot. I was thinking about doing the last thing myself, but it is too difficult without bf1942 modding experience.

Also, if there are some ppl without valid CD-KEYs around, who wish to try FHSW - I can help that people, I've got some extra keys right now. (I'm speaking about the real keys, not something generated with keygens.)



[Drink Sq] RadYogh
 
mardukDate: Tuesday, 2012-12-11, 8:53 AM | Message # 19
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@RY: we got an extra thread for installer and mod-issues.

About events:
We have to announce the events EARLIER, we ALWAYS need a flyer and have to put it ON THE TOP of he mainpage. Also send a newsletter via e-mail (as we already do) and post it on bf-games.


Quid pro quo!
 
Endless_NamelessDate: Tuesday, 2012-12-11, 10:31 AM | Message # 20
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Quote (RY)
By the way, one of the things that may help the community to grow is making an easy installation for BF1942+FH+FHSW with fixes included. It would be best to convince FHSW devs to make FHSW work without FH and/or other mods, with just pure bf1942. And it would be nice to have a variant of installation where all bf1942 stuff will be replaced by FHSW, and everything not used in FHSW cut out, I bet that this also could speedup the map loading a lot. I was thinking about doing the last thing myself, but it is too difficult without bf1942 modding experience.

Good ideas and there is actually a fix included in the FHSW installer I made. I'm not sure it would lower the loading times that much if you incorporate FH into FHSW because FHSW uses almost everything from FH in some way and it doesn't matter if the files are stored in the FH or FHSW folder. They could scrap all the AI related things which still exist but that would probably only make it lighter by some KB. You also need the permission of the FH devs, but who would be the responsible person to ask? In the current FH2 staff there aren't many left who worked for FH1.

An idea from J which I find more and more appealing is to switch the server to no key. Almost all remaining top servers (besides Moongamers) are cracked and they never got in trouble because of it.

@Marduk: bf-games kann man sich im Prinzip sparen, da kommt eh keiner. Mit dem Rest hast du natürlich Recht. Sorry für offtopic, vllt lager ich das aus, wenn es zu extrem wird.


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