Bailing planes over flags - Forum
Monday, 2016-12-05, 0:31 AM
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Forum » [FHSW Europ] FHSW 0.51 Server: » Complaint Area » Bailing planes over flags
Bailing planes over flags
Korsakov829Date: Friday, 2016-10-14, 8:02 PM | Message # 1
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You can see the Japanese soldier next to the plane. That was [Se]E-3 for record, and it happened for a second time several minutes later, the only other Axis player at the time was DCX Apache who was on foot.

But I think it's more important that people be made aware of the server rules, otherwise we may as well not follow them at all. Xenanab said that this was okay to do and he made me have some doubts, but when I checked I wasn't wrong. And isn't he an admin or something?

Quote
11. Do not use planes as taxi to bail above enemy flag!


It's just very frustrating, where that people get away with this and yet you have to hold yourself back from doing anything of the sort. When there are no admins on, this is very common, and even then it still happens but the only time a violator seems to have to worry is if what they do directly affects or is witnessed by an admin.
 
XenanabDate: Friday, 2016-10-14, 11:22 PM | Message # 2
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First of all I want to say that I am just a map admin.

And no: I wasn't aware of that rule, since I thought that common sense of fairplay is something everyone has. I am also no fan of capturing a flag in the back with a jeep or something (like capturing the Polish mainbase on Fall Weiß).

On Alpenfestung I sometimes use the Grasshopper to bail over the maus bunkers and entrenchments with the 50lbs specops kit in order to help the struggling allied tanks out. After the job is done I proceed to capture the flag if it isn't guarded. Where is the problem there? The kits and the planes are obviously there for exactly that reason: Infiltrating enemy bases in order to make the conquest easier.

Of course it was,is and always will be forbidden to attack a flag in advance, even if there is still a pushcage active. Capturing flags in the back without giving the defenders the chance to react is just lame. This applies to pushmaps and those that should better be some sort of pushmap (Fall Weiß).
 
CanukAttakDate: Friday, 2016-10-14, 11:39 PM | Message # 3
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Its pretty simple just cap the flags in order weather push map or not. parachutes should only be used when your plane has been hit and is going down which is fine but I find it dumb personally. (DIE WITH YOUR PLANE) just like a tank you take it you die with it. Back flag capping is lame. Bailing over a flag is forbidden. Now if you are able to land your plane next to a flag that is alright if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm Canukattak and Canadians are always right ahahahaha. Just play the game fair don't be a douche
 
Korsakov829Date: Saturday, 2016-10-15, 4:30 AM | Message # 4
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It's well and good that we here have at least some consensus, but you can't expect a majority to adhere to some gentleman's rules or code, at least not these days. That's an antique relic, that would have worked many years ago among tight knit groups that could share that philosophy with others but that is not the case now. If you try and tell someone not to bail a plane out over a flag you can expect an argument and that's all. Checking forums as well, that's long become outdated.

All I suggest is a more active approach in making the few rules we do have more known to everyone periodically. Have an admin mention them from time to time whenever possible in the game itself as an example, that gets through to many more people more than a website address ever will.
 
LampoDate: Saturday, 2016-10-15, 4:49 PM | Message # 5
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Quote CanukAttak ()
I'm Canukattak and Canadians are always righ


haha

I always die with my tanki...

Back flag capping is not in my behavior but sometime I'm on flag when the previous is white, so I wait some second then I attack and I die without capping it. Never used planes to cap flags, I don't like this taxi service. I prefer the classic mode ( knife in my mouth and some luckiness )
cool


+ -
 
Korsakov829Date: Saturday, 2016-10-15, 10:51 PM | Message # 6
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https://i.imgur.com/rLLeBd8.jpg

Look, there's another. You can barely see him even when the image isn't compressed, but that guy has no damn business heading straight for our main. Being that I believe Marduk was even on the Axis team at the time, I don't think you could ever hope to catch people in the act. But even when no one's breaking the rules you should just periodically remind people that they're there.


Message edited by Korsakov829 - Saturday, 2016-10-15, 10:52 PM
 
wewakDate: Sunday, 2016-10-16, 10:24 AM | Message # 7
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I always thought it was allowed to shoot into main at static things that are shoooting out? I thought it was a rule earlier but I dont see it anymore in the list.
 
sonikglightDate: Sunday, 2016-10-16, 12:49 PM | Message # 8
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Korsakov829,  This picture means shit
 
starking018Date: Monday, 2016-10-17, 6:45 AM | Message # 9
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In my opinion bailing over flags only becomes a problem when there's a too large reward for doing it, or too large a penalty for the opponent. Like when the flag can't be recaptured (such as the case for this flag on Fall of Singapore). Otherwise, a single soldier with a pistol and no support is just a nuisance, something which you can deal with quickly, recapture the flag and then it goes back to normal. This is one reason why I dislike non-recapturable flags.

Back-capping, as on Fall Weiss, by itself shouldn't be considered a problem because it's not a very tenable thing tactically. When a team loses a back flag they can (and it's usually the smart thing to do) try to fall back as soon as possible with some commensurate strength and retake the flag. For the ones who try to back-cap it's a proposition of high-gain, but also of a low probability of ultimate success, so it's no free lunch. It's just a normal tactic which makes sense for the one contemplating it only in some limited circumstances. I don't agree that Fall Weiss should be a push map - it doesn't make sense terrain-wise (no features which would limit the flanks), historically and strategically (it's not like a town which needs to be secured).

Quote Korsakov829 ()
you can't expect a majority to adhere to some gentleman's rules or code


I think this is what we try to do at least partially, and that we should be persistent with it. Some patience with new players is desirable. People learn, and I agree that more visibility of the rules can help with that, so long as it doesn't become too nagging.
 
E-3Date: Monday, 2016-10-17, 11:38 AM | Message # 10
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well i have done that im very sorry for it but it was only 4 players on a big map and unless you want play small maps like
pegasus bridge its not very practical to run around when you only have 4 players.
i got a question about  ( the Do not use planes as taxi to bail above enemy flag rule ?)
i do fully understand you can't use fighter or bomber aircraft as flag capture plane
but what about Piper L4 "Grasshopper  Douglas C-47    Waco CG-4A Glider  the me 323 gigant junkers ju 52  flettner 282 helicopter troop version they are all troop and tank transport planes  or helis.
so its should be allowed for the Piper L4 "Grasshopper Douglas C-47    Waco CG-4A Glider  me 323 gigant junkers ju 52 and  flettner 282 helicopter troop version ?


Message edited by E-3 - Monday, 2016-10-17, 4:56 PM
 
sonikglightDate: Monday, 2016-10-17, 6:50 PM | Message # 11
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(confession booth)

{actor = father} How long has it been since your last confession?

{actor =player} Forever. Bless me, Father, for I have sinned.

{actor =father} what are your sin my son?

{actor =player} will i love me some pussy........

{actor =father} yes go on.

{actor =player} will I shot and killed Korsakov on the forgotten hope secret weapons European community server.

{actor =father} yes. fine.
{actor =player} And lastly, I loved it. With an evil smile on the player face.

Anyone see the irony between the majority of this post and this story I just made?

If not I can't back you up or help you as admin because there way to much gluttony and ignorant's here.


Message edited by sonikglight - Monday, 2016-10-17, 6:50 PM
 
Santa-AnnaDate: Monday, 2016-10-17, 7:35 PM | Message # 12
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Brix will be shat...



Message edited by Santa-Anna - Monday, 2016-10-17, 7:36 PM
 
Robert_von_EberhahnDate: Monday, 2016-10-17, 8:27 PM | Message # 13
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lol cry

 
starking018Date: Tuesday, 2016-10-18, 4:20 AM | Message # 14
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Quote E-3 ()
so its should be allowed for the Piper L4 "Grasshopper Douglas C-47 Waco CG-4A Glider me 323 gigant junkers ju 52 and flettner 282 helicopter troop version ?


That's a good question. I think that we should come to an agreement that in principle it's OK for any passenger and crew member (other than the pilot) to bail and attack flags.

The main logic of the rule, as I see it, is that it's not OK to waste an airworthy aircraft by abandoning it and letting it crash or land far from where friendlies can get it, or worse, letting it be captured by the enemy. On many maps the aircraft are limited and very valuable tactically, so they are to be used more wisely than that.

That's not the only consideration though. There are some things which are not good in combination with bailing. As I said before, bailing straight to a non-recapturable flag is not good; bailing straight to an instantly capturable flag is not good (because it can be virtually impossible to prevent capture); bailing at a flag where you can steal an enemy's assets is often too challenging for the enemy; etc. There are maps which have both transport/multiseat aircraft and some of these features. In my opinion it would be best if these features were disabled (i.e. have normal flags and locked valuable assets) and then consider bailing OK (except for pilot). But unless and until we agree that such technical changes are desirable and then implement them, we will have to keep restricting ourselves in some ways about bailing (even non-pilots) and attacking flags.
 
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