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Forum » [FHSW Europ] FHSW 0.51 Server: » Complaint Area » DCX Apache's permanent ban
DCX Apache's permanent ban
starking018Date: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 1:26 PM | Message # 1
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There was a thread which didn't end well and I wanted to add something (I think beneficial). I see that Torquemada also wanted to start such a thread, so I'm including his and other comments here first:

Quote skelepiet ()
I wanted to create a tread,but because new forum Member, wasn't allowed,that's why here.Hello All,I heard from my old Mate Winbean that Apache got a Perm Ban.

I am kinda new here,so I apologize for making this tread and interfering with Admins.

I just want to make some things clear...I came on this Server because
PFC so often got Hacked,it was out for 3 days,back in the Days I Had a
lot of Mods Installed ,also FHSW,so I think I reinstall it again,I Play
on Your Server,and suddenly all my PFC admin Rights are taken away,same
happen to Winbean,Meltdown,Apache,very sad.

I U check the FH Server now in week time it s almost dead,weekends is different,same with SW.

When Apache was Admin on PFC,he was like the Life Blood of that
server,always manned the server from 5 till 9 pm,a very good player,but
not a rape artist,always gives new players a chance to also kill him,so
with a small crowd kept the server alive ,and make it gain more players.

We come from PFC with very strict Rules according to the Map,like Push
Maps,on FHSW these Rules are handled different,me and Apache got big
problems with that,and we need to keep or mouths shut,that's what I
learned.
I respect that,this Mod is kinda more bout fun that Rules,but I still sometimes have problems with that,U can ask Air Troll.

If U are an Admin,U are like an Ambassador of the Server,and U should
always keep Your Personal feelings aside,because this won't benefit the
Server.

I have very Much respect for al Admins on this Server, always enjoy playing on this Server,also with the SW Community,and very
soon found a Hearth here with loadsa players.
I have also big respect for making this Mod better every year,big respect for the Devs!

I make this Post for Apache,and Hope U will see the Light,and Unban him.

Especially Us Veteran players should Focus on getting more players,we should not let our differences in the way,most brilliant Maps need more than 20 Players,in SW this amount is even bigger,because of the Overkill some weapons posses is really big.

There is too much hate n Ego in these Communities,with a game that is so much Fun & Challenging.

With all Respect , Torquemada


Quote Lampo ()

Quote skelepiet ()
Hope U will see the Light,and Unban him.


Yeah, i'm pretty sure he will be unbanned... because here we are good ppl yes
maybe in some time... but it's not my power so
i can only quote your request and wait for some news.

i go to drink some beer, i'm on holiday for 1 week so i have a lot of work to replace empty bottles.


Quote bubu ()
Hi Torquemada,I will try to put this very shortly: PFC continued with their strict policies and rules and they got where they are now. Apache wanted these rules ENFORCED here as well.

Longer explanation follows:
After the following things happened
- 30 people whining on each other and shouting which rule was broken by who
- Slobodan banned for 3 or 5 days for entering area next to a mainbase on Tobruk
- Multiple insults towards admin staff, me personally, other players while we still tried to be nice towards Apache
- Last but not least - Constant problem reporting with everything which is not along PFC rules and demanding the problem to be resolved by new rule and ENFORCED

I have disgust at how much of people are trying to bring the Apache back. Please, give it time - at the moment it seems as really no one of you were there to see all this happen, but I believe you were there and you said nothing back then. It was always up to Xena to write "STFU all of you" to Apache, whoever his accusation was meant for and me.

Personally, I always have put every insult from him towards me to past and I go on, am friendly, and I don't really mind. I tolerate a lot and I am patient. We all are! So please, don't think the ban is because of personal preference. The wish of rules being enforced seems always tempting, fair, and honestly I liked it at first! But after banning Slobodan for 3 days, I realised what the hell is going on. I've seen this enforcement once and do you know where? Yes, in the PFC.

A relevant side note: Apache wanted the rule enforcement absolutely everywhere, for every stupid thing, so there it is. The rule of thumb was to not insult ANYONE on the server, whether it is a newbie, total noob, old player, Trump's granny or Putin's grandpa. Usually, we know we joke around when write stuff like "f**k you", or "you deserve to be ran over by my tank and blown away with my 75mm gun"... But calling someone "motherf**ker" and telling me "Bubu be a good dog, sit down, tap tap" is obviously NOT meant as a joke, it is rather an insult. And why? Because we opposed his eternal wish for certain rule to be enforced. So veteran players like Apache should not do this in the first place.

And here it is not about keeping your mouth shut. You can say whatever you want but when someone gives you a reason why your opinion would not work, don't go to insult mode and don't try to push your way through every little single irrelevant way.

As I said, the ban is not because of particular personal insult - I don't give a single dime! It is for accumulation of things.

But in the end, the light shines, so please give it time.

Regarding Winbean:
Obviously Winbean forgot to mention one important thing, which is that he resigned. He was in total control of server but it still was Eye who had to to more technical stuff. Winbean would still be able to change maps, warn players, do basic admin stuff if he did not resign.

Your PFC admin rights:
There is a LARGE, let's name it, 'file' about this in my head and I will not spend writing 1 hour about it.


Quote Xenanab ()
Since I actually am part of the admin team I thank you for some kind words Torquemada.I don't want to comment so much on the thing with Apache except the fact that he really was annoying the landscape of our playerbase with harsh accusations every single time and even spreading a totally wrong ruleset as actual fact.

Quote bubu ()
I have disgust at how much of people are trying to bring the Apache back. Please, give it time - at the moment it seems as really no one of you were there to see all this happen, but I believe you were there and you said nothing back then. It was always up to Xena to write "STFU all of you" to Apache, whoever his accusation was meant for and me.


After the things that happened just a few weeks ago I also wouldn't say that he should come back any time soon but a permanent ban is really unfair imho. Everybody deserves a 2nd chance.

The reason I often write "Knock it off! ALL of you" is because I just want to liberate the freaking ingamechat from discussions that only belong on the forum. Based on some discussions in ingamechat I don't ban people because I feel they must be banned in order to bring the server back to the game. At least if clearly none of the server rules were broken.

Also Bubu if you are referring to the Raseiniai incident I wanted to remind that not only Apache was complaining that a certain player precapped 3 push flags in the row and ruined the map for allies ;-)
I even asked if a restart was suitable so feedback was welcome.
Still the ban of this certain player lasted only 24 hours and wasn't a huge deal. No player comment influenced my decision back then.

( I assume you thought that Apache did so on me. If no sorry for bringing this topic back up smile )


Quote skelepiet ()
I want to thank U all,for Your Honest and Quick reply.
I have good Faith in this Community.
Greetings !


Quote xxpollenzxx ()
Damn you all. Now I want to know what happened lol


Here's my comment. I see that rbsekac (DCX Apache) has been blocked on the forum, but he also seems to be banned on the server (see the last 3 comments in the closed thread).

Quote marduk ()
I was "warned" by Torquemada? Is he an admin now?!


I checked the chat log and it turns out Torquemada simply pointed out this aspect of the map. He did not seem to address someone in particular, and it was said 25 minutes before Apache's chat messages. Perhaps Marduk didn't read Torquemada's messages at the time, for some reason. It can happen.

[2017-06-04 20:35:47] Torquemada: 1st FLAAGS ARE UNCAP
[2017-06-04 20:36:13] Torquemada: Press M,READ MAP

As for Apache's words, it looks like a case of a combination of misunderstandings, (not getting Marduk's joking with Slobodan) bad manners, assuming a guilty mind (Marduk attacking a flag on Manchuria which indeed used to be re-capturable) and repeatedly asking such things of others which one shouldn't ask of beyond a limit, if at all. I think there's a line between sharing one's own views about what the rules should be, how they should be interpreted, what an appropriate reaction is on the one hand, and telling somebody else to actively use their position of power in a certain way on the other hand. Personally, I have a principle about not crossing the line into the latter, whereas Apache shows that he is totally OK with doing that. I'm not saying this to try to preach my principles, but to explain why I can't defend this particular behavior.

It is important to keep in mind that Apache's words are unconnected to actions or potential actions by him. He is not an admin (and given his strong views I wouldn't want him to be one). On the other hand, some unacquainted player may take his rants about rule breaking as the law, which they are not; someone may needlessly feel threatened, etc. Needless to say no one likes to be called names. There is definitely an issue with what he has said. However, I think that if there was a way to make sure that Apache never says anything bad in chat it might be acceptable to play with him on the server again. I don't know if others would agree with me on that.

It would be nice if it was possible to ban a player from the chat only. There's no known way to do this for the whole server, only individual players can add other players to their own ignore list. Then they don't receive chat messages from those players. This may work for some, but may not be good enough. It may be possible to come to an agreement about Apache voluntarily restricting his own use of the chat to some extent and then rely on trust for that.

I'm trying to find a solution that is acceptable to all of us and better overall. I think that it is possible. Perhaps we could try to make an agreement to unban Apache if he promises not to use chat at all, or to use it for strictly tactical purposes and no rules discussion? If self-control is an issue, he could disable the chat and team chat controls in the settings.

What do you think about this?

With respect,
Air Troll


Air Troll a.k.a. starking018

Message edited by starking018 - Saturday, 2017-07-01, 1:38 PM
 
CanukAttakDate: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 1:45 PM | Message # 2
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Personal opinion, he's been warned countless times, non stop bitchin about rules. It's a game you die and respawn, since he's been gone that has decreased dramatically. We are always willing to give another chance I. Time
 
Joni_KillerDate: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 4:35 PM | Message # 3
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I'm crying  biggrin

Joni_Killer a.k.a Infantry General Jon_Killer
 
luiscarlosredDate: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 5:10 PM | Message # 4
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This situation is different, with cheats we should be rigid but these discussions about rules or things of the kind using words for communication we must solve otherwise without need of banishment, only if it were cheat or case of extreme offense.

BornDarkness
 
Santa-AnnaDate: Saturday, 2017-07-01, 8:01 PM | Message # 5
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Come on, unban him please.
 
mardukDate: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 7:25 AM | Message # 6
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Winbean once sent us a message saying: "DCX Apache he is a really good person is an old man, very religious and all he does is play the game..."

Seriously, this is ridiculous. If he was very religious he would be more humble and not making trouble and insult us over and over again. Open your eyes people, that guy ist just taking the piss and we will not unban him.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
bubuDate: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 4:01 PM | Message # 7
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Give. This. Some. Time.

Please.

For sake of all of us: The constant accusations and whining decreased now as Canuk said, just give it some time before everything. Relax a bit.

Funny fact:
After the server control was passed to me, Winbean sent me message asking for Apache's unban. I wrote him back I won't unban him YET. Suddenly there is a lot of people getting involved in this. Why can't Apache and Winbean respect decision of admin team, and respect the so called "rule enforcement" for violating rule I pointed out in my message included in the top?

Added 17:35:
Pardon my manners, thanks Air Troll for your words.

Quote starking018:
Quote
It would be nice if it was possible to ban a player from the chat only.
There's no known way to do this for the whole server, only individual
players can add other players to their own ignore list. Then they don't
receive chat messages from those players. This may work for some, but
may not be good enough. It may be possible to come to an agreement about
Apache voluntarily restricting his own use of the chat to some extent
and then rely on trust for that.


I asked Marduk the very same: There has been MANY conversations with Apache about how much he is constantly speaking about rules and we asked him countless times to stop doing it and we had nothing back but profanity from his side and accusations where we alone break the rules, which were really made up x)


Message edited by bubu - Sunday, 2017-07-02, 4:42 PM
 
mardukDate: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 4:20 PM | Message # 8
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Quote Bubu: "After the server control was passed to me, Winbean sent me message asking for Apache's unban. I wrote him back I won't unban him YET. Suddenly there is a lot of people getting involved in this. Why can't Apache and Winbean respect decision of admin team, and respect the so called "rule enforcement" for violating rule I pointed out in my message included in the top?"

Thats the point. In my opinion those guys are trying to split up our community. And this is a real threat to us.


This is a gaming community. People come here to relax. If you start an argument you will get kicked.

Quid pro quo.
 
LampoDate: Sunday, 2017-07-02, 10:10 PM | Message # 9
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Quote marduk ()
those guys are trying to split up our community
naaaa, this is impossible... I love you all and nothing and no1 can do that.  love
I hope only Apachi will be unbanned, if we exclude some bad behavour, he is a good guy and he loves FHSW like everyone of us...
rolleyes

then, why did you quit the game tonite ????  sad 
Connection problems ?




Message edited by Lampo - Sunday, 2017-07-02, 10:11 PM
 
xxpollenzxxDate: Monday, 2017-07-03, 8:02 PM | Message # 10
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All is your fault lampi, I think that you are not giving enough love to all and thus poeople start insulting eachother.

Seriously, I think that Apache might be a pain in the ass if you suddenly pay attention to chat, but he is a regular player (and good one) and I don't think that banning him is a good decision, and even if you do, why would you block him of the forum? :/
 
Robert_von_EberhahnDate: Monday, 2017-07-03, 8:30 PM | Message # 11
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Personally I had no problems or encounters / discussions with Apache at all, so personally I can´t judge about his behavior or the situation at all. So it is Marduks decision what he did, because it is his relationship with Apache and I know how long Duki is calm in that cases.
So for my thinking and my experiences with Apache I would welcome his unban, but this is Marduks responsibility as the Admin in charge in this case and I trust him in his statement. So guys, strength him his backbone with ur support.


Gameserver admin on our FHSW Europ server
 
bubuDate: Tuesday, 2017-07-04, 4:19 PM | Message # 12
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Not only Marduk's decision - my decision as well

As I have explained already, the ban is not for personal feelings but for accumulation of about 4 factors, which I laid out in an earlier post, quoted by Air Troll in the top (direct link: http://fhsw-europ.ucoz.de/forum/7-752-13709-16-1498810107)
happy
 
Robert_von_EberhahnDate: Tuesday, 2017-07-04, 4:51 PM | Message # 13
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OK, I´m not so deep in that case actually, because too busy in RL. You will make it v

Gameserver admin on our FHSW Europ server
 
skelepietDate: Wednesday, 2017-07-05, 5:41 PM | Message # 14
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,I Understand U Marduk and Bubu.

Me and my opinion has got nothing to do with a Community that I represent or whatever,I always act on my own.

And a did apologize for interfering    

I am kinda loner,also was at PFC,and always stood firm behind my actions as a 7 year+ Admin.
So I can fully Respect U guys do that also.

I also want to thank  Air Troll for his wise words.
And Lampi for sharing his thoughts    

Greetings !
 
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